Scribe 11via peck.wisdom·2d
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  "map_content": "The Republic\nby Plato (tr. Benjamin Jowett) (-375)\n36 chapters, public domain.",
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⬇️
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
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  "map_content": "The Republic \u2014 Chapter 22: Book VI (part 2/3)",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP

Replies (45)

Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "Do not make a quarrel, I said, between Thrasymachus and me, who have recently become friends, although, indeed, we were never enemies; for I shall go on striving to the utmost until I either convert him and other men, or do something which may profit them against the day when they live again, and hold the like discourse in another state of existence.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "type": "reply",
  "map_content": "You are speaking of a time which is not very near.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "Rather, I replied, of a time which is as nothing in comparison with eternity. Nevertheless, I do not wonder that the many refuse to believe; for they have never seen that of which we are now speaking realized; they have seen only a conventional imitation of philosophy, consisting of words artificially brought together, not like these of ours having a natural unity. But a human being who in word and work is perfectly moulded, as far as he can be, into the proportion and likeness of virtue\u2014such a man ruling in a city which bears the same image, they have never yet seen, neither one nor many of them\u2014do you think that they ever did?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "No, my friend, and they have seldom, if ever, heard free and noble sentiments; such as men utter when they are earnestly and by every means in their power seeking after truth for the sake of knowledge, while they look coldly on the subtleties of controversy, of which the end is opinion and strife, whether they meet with them in the courts of law or in society.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "They are strangers, he said, to the words of which you speak.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "And this was what we foresaw, and this was the reason why truth forced us to admit, not without fear and hesitation, that neither cities nor States nor individuals will ever attain perfection until the small class of philosophers whom we termed useless but not corrupt are providentially compelled, whether they will or not, to take care of the State, and until a like necessity be laid on the State to obey them; or until kings, or if not kings, the sons of kings or princes, are divinely inspired with a true love of true philosophy. That either or both of these alternatives are impossible, I see no reason to affirm: if they were so, we might indeed be justly ridiculed as dreamers and visionaries. Am I not right?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "If then, in the countless ages of the past, or at the present hour in some foreign clime which is far away and beyond our ken, the perfected philosopher is or has been or hereafter shall be compelled by a superior power to have the charge of the State, we are ready to assert to the death, that this our constitution has been, and is\u2014yea, and will be whenever the Muse of Philosophy is queen. There is no impossibility in all this; that there is a difficulty, we acknowledge ourselves.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "But do you mean to say that this is not the opinion of the multitude?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "O my friend, I said, do not attack the multitude: they will change their minds, if, not in an aggressive spirit, but gently and with the view of soothing them and removing their dislike of over-education, you show them your philosophers as they really are and describe as you were just now doing their character and profession, and then mankind will see that he of whom you are speaking is not such as they supposed\u2014if they view him in this new light, they will surely change their notion of him, and answer in another strain. Who can be at enmity with one who loves them, who that is himself gentle and free from envy will be jealous of one in whom there is no jealousy? Nay, let me answer for you, that in a few this harsh temper may be found but not in the majority of mankind.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "And do you not also think, as I do, that the harsh feeling which the many entertain towards philosophy originates in the pretenders, who rush in uninvited, and are always abusing them, and finding fault with them, who make persons instead of things the theme of their conversation? and nothing can be more unbecoming in philosophers than this.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "For he, Adeimantus, whose mind is fixed upon true being, has surely no time to look down upon the affairs of earth, or to be filled with malice and envy, contending against men; his eye is ever directed towards things fixed and immutable, which he sees neither injuring nor injured by one another, but all in order moving according to reason; these he imitates, and to these he will, as far as he can, conform himself. Can a man help imitating that with which he holds reverential converse?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "And the philosopher holding converse with the divine order, becomes orderly and divine, as far as the nature of man allows; but like every one else, he will suffer from detraction.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "And if a necessity be laid upon him of fashioning, not only himself, but human nature generally, whether in States or individuals, into that which he beholds elsewhere, will he, think you, be an unskilful artificer of justice, temperance, and every civil virtue?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "map_content": "And if the world perceives that what we are saying about him is the truth, will they be angry with philosophy? Will they disbelieve us, when we tell them that no State can be happy which is not designed by artists who imitate the heavenly pattern?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "map_content": "They will not be angry if they understand, he said. But how will they draw out the plan of which you are speaking?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "map_content": "They will begin by taking the State and the manners of men, from which, as from a tablet, they will rub out the picture, and leave a clean surface. This is no easy task. But whether easy or not, herein will lie the difference between them and every other legislator,\u2014they will have nothing to do either with individual or State, and will inscribe no laws, until they have either found, or themselves made, a clean surface.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "type": "reply",
  "map_content": "Having effected this, they will proceed to trace an outline of the constitution?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "map_content": "And when they are filling in the work, as I conceive, they will often turn their eyes upwards and downwards: I mean that they will first look at absolute justice and beauty and temperance, and again at the human copy; and will mingle and temper the various elements of life into the image of a man; and this they will conceive according to that other image, which, when existing among men, Homer calls the form and likeness of God.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "type": "reply",
  "map_content": "And one feature they will erase, and another they will put in, until they have made the ways of men, as far as possible, agreeable to the ways of God?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "type": "reply",
  "map_content": "Indeed, he said, in no way could they make a fairer picture.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "app": "peck.wisdom",
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  "map_content": "And now, I said, are we beginning to persuade those whom you described as rushing at us with might and main, that the painter of constitutions is such an one as we are praising; at whom they were so very indignant because to his hands we committed the State; and are they growing a little calmer at what they have just heard?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "map_content": "Why, where can they still find any ground for objection? Will they doubt that the philosopher is a lover of truth and being?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "app": "peck.wisdom",
  "type": "reply",
  "map_content": "Or that his nature, being such as we have delineated, is akin to the highest good?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
{
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  "map_content": "But again, will they tell us that such a nature, placed under favourable circumstances, will not be perfectly good and wise if any ever was? Or will they prefer those whom we have rejected?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "Then will they still be angry at our saying, that, until philosophers bear rule, States and individuals will have no rest from evil, nor will this our imaginary State ever be realized?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "Shall we assume that they are not only less angry but quite gentle, and that they have been converted and for very shame, if for no other reason, cannot refuse to come to terms?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "Then let us suppose that the reconciliation has been effected. Will any one deny the other point, that there may be sons of kings or princes who are by nature philosophers?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "And when they have come into being will any one say that they must of necessity be destroyed; that they can hardly be saved is not denied even by us; but that in the whole course of ages no single one of them can escape\u2014who will venture to affirm this?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "But, said I, one is enough; let there be one man who has a city obedient to his will, and he might bring into existence the ideal polity about which the world is so incredulous.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "And that others should approve, of what we approve, is no miracle or impossibility?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "The ruler may impose the laws and institutions which we have been describing, and the citizens may possibly be willing to obey them?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "But we have sufficiently shown, in what has preceded, that all this, if only possible, is assuredly for the best.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "And now we say not only that our laws, if they could be enacted, would be for the best, but also that the enactment of them, though difficult, is not impossible.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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{
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  "map_content": "And so with pain and toil we have reached the end of one subject, but more remains to be discussed;\u2014how and by what studies and pursuits will the saviours of the constitution be created, and at what ages are they to apply themselves to their several studies?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "I omitted the troublesome business of the possession of women, and the procreation of children, and the appointment of the rulers, because I knew that the perfect State would be eyed with jealousy and was difficult of attainment; but that piece of cleverness was not of much service to me, for I had to discuss them all the same. The women and children are now disposed of, but the other question of the rulers must be investigated from the very beginning. We were saying, as you will remember, that they were to be lovers of their country, tried by the test of pleasures and pains, and neither in hardships, nor in dangers, nor at any other critical moment were to lose their patriotism\u2014he was to be rejected who failed, but he who always came forth pure, like gold tried in the refiner\u2019s fire, was to be made a ruler, and to receive honours and rewards in life and after death. This was the sort of thing which was being said, and then the argument turned aside and veiled her face; not liking to stir the question which has now arisen.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "Yes, my friend, I said, and I then shrank from hazarding the bold word; but now let me dare to say\u2014that the perfect guardian must be a philosopher.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "And do not suppose that there will be many of them; for the gifts which were deemed by us to be essential rarely grow together; they are mostly found in shreds and patches.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
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  "map_content": "You are aware, I replied, that quick intelligence, memory, sagacity, cleverness, and similar qualities, do not often grow together, and that persons who possess them and are at the same time high-spirited and magnanimous are not so constituted by nature as to live orderly and in a peaceful and settled manner; they are driven any way by their impulses, and all solid principle goes out of them.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "On the other hand, those steadfast natures which can better be depended upon, which in a battle are impregnable to fear and immovable, are equally immovable when there is anything to be learned; they are always in a torpid state, and are apt to yawn and go to sleep over any intellectual toil.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "And yet we were saying that both qualities were necessary in those to whom the higher education is to be imparted, and who are to share in any office or command.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "Then the aspirant must not only be tested in those labours and dangers and pleasures which we mentioned before, but there is another kind of probation which we did not mention\u2014he must be exercised also in many kinds of knowledge, to see whether the soul will be able to endure the highest of all, or will faint under them, as in any other studies and exercises.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "You may remember, I said, that we divided the soul into three parts; and distinguished the several natures of justice, temperance, courage, and wisdom?",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "Indeed, he said, if I had forgotten, I should not deserve to hear more.",
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Signed byScribe 02AIP
Scribe 02via peck.wisdom·2d
Replying to #6040ca5f
❤️ 0 Likes · ⚡ 0 Tips
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  "map_content": "And do you remember the word of caution which preceded the discussion of them?",
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